Robos struggles always seem injury related… otherwise he puts up crazy good numbers… good habits, excellent work ethic, great personality… home grown… could get stronger!
I say get him on the Wheaties/workout program… and keep him (Seguins contract is up when we need it to pay Robo!)
My general view: it would be insane to trade Jason Robertson. Teams should be crawling over broken glass during a nuclear winter to find and keep players with his talent, hockey IQ, and work ethic. Just look at how much value Joe Pavelski added to this team beyond his own individual production. Moreover, his defense is severely underrated. He is actually an excellent two way forward when he is fully healthy, as he has been until this season.
Jim Nill needs to think like Jimmy Johnson when he was the de facto GM of the Cowboys. Who in the NHL would be an upgrade or as good as Robo over the next 5-8 years, when he will be in his prime years as an NHL player? If you exclude the very top level of forwards (McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, players on that level), who else is left? Again, I'm not talking just about his excellent two way game, but also the hockey IQ, the work ethic, etc.
But what about the playoffs? You only get the best teams in the playoffs, and they put their best checkers and defense pairs against your top lines. What happened to Robo happens to most top line NHL forwards outside the very top group that I mentioned above. The old playoff saw about scorers needing to check and checkers needing to score is absolutely the truth.
But what if you can get a bunch of draft picks? Well, how many of them will grow up enough to become the next Jason Robertson? And how long would that take. If you look at the Stars own draft picks since 2017, you might look at players like Wyatt Johnston and Thomas Harley, but those guys should have been top 5 picks in their draft years. The Stars did their usual excellent scout work and also got very lucky. Their chances of landing a player even as good as Wyatt or Harley are not great unless they are picking in the top 5 -- and the teams drafting that high are not looking for guys like Jason right now.
Last, if the salary cap is the real problem, then make the hard decisions with other players who are not as valuable as Robertson. There is a core of players that include Rantanen, Hintz, Robo, Heiskanen, Harley, Oettinger, and Lindell that you have to build the rest of the team around. And you have your entry level players who are salary cap friendly and might develop into core players in the next 3-4 years. The rest of the team is where you have to make your hard choices. You can always find replacement NHL players at those positions. Maybe not quite as good overall as the ones you would let go, but good enough. And they might actually be as good or better playing with better players than their former teams.
Anyway, in the end you win Stanley Cups by having better players who outwork everyone else. That's where Robo is right now in his career and he is in his prime years. So, again, trading him is insanity unless you are getting back a top 10 NHL player.
I think the cap excuse is mostly nonsense and if the Stars move Robertson it's because they don't like the player or the agent, and can fill a need. That being said, who are the real options for the Stars to upgrade their need (RHD) with a Robertson trade? You can assume the only people I'd be comfortable doing a 1 for 1 swap are unavailable and also wouldn't be swapped by their teams (Makar, Fox, Bouchard), and that Erik Karlsson is too old to really fit the window. So that leaves us with a few guys who you would need teams to add assets into the deal to make the trade worthwhile for the Stars.
Mackenzie Weegar - would the Flames move on from him to boost their forward scoring?
Brandon Montour - same question for Seattle
Brandt Clarke - Is LA really ready to give up on a huge upside offensive RHD, and would they add the right assets in for the Stars to pull the trigger? They'd probably need to add another roster player and a pick.
Noah Dobson - Same question for NYI as LA
Moritz Seider - Would Detroit get rid of their franchise D for a winger?
Filip Hronek - Would Vancouver really have the assets to add to this to make it worthwhile for Dallas? Would it in any world be added value for the Stars to add Hronek with all of his defensive limitations at 70% of what Robo's next contract would cost?
To me, the vast majority of these moves don't make any sense, so it doesn't make sense to move on from Robertson this offseason. Robo is a young cost-controlled asset who you can move any time in the next 2 seasons and who is worth the next contract you're going to give him. There's no reason you can't move Marchment's 1x4.5m contract to a bubble/ low end playoff team looking for depth or another contender looking for grit and get a pick back for him, and you should be able to package a pick to get Dumba off your hands. Hell if it really is a cap crunch why are we talking about Benn coming back at all just for a couple legacy years? Then in 2 years we have about 35m in projected cap space so even if you're giving Harley and Robo 10m each that's still 15m to play with. It's really just a one year crunch at this point, and that's manageable because you still have Robo at his current under market value rate.
I see it more as Nill doing due diligence. The Stars don't want to lose him, but if another team is so desperate for goals that they'll give Dallas an offer they can't refuse? Well, that's another conversation entirely. But yeah, if it's just a matter of making a roster, they have lots of creative options that are less disruptive. But I think they're looking for big moves.
Yeah I tend to agree. I just think that generally the big move has to be to fill a need with a player of similar caliber. Trading Robertson for 2-3 worse players doesn’t make the team better in aggregate under almost any circumstances.
So, now the Avs just wait to see who he gets traded to, trade for him at next year's deadline, and then let Robo crush our souls in a game 7 of next year's playoffs? (aka The Avs have a chance to do the funniest thing...)
p.s. I am not advocating for this and really shouldn't even be putting this karma out into the world. My sick, self-deprecating sense of humor immediately went here though. So, I thought I would share. ;p
There's not a return out there in which we'll get equal value for Robo. We don't need a RHD1, we can't afford it with both Harley and Miro. Replace his production with who? You are already in danger of losing Duchene. We want to say goodbye to 160+points of production off 2 forwards in one off-season?
The salary cap is going up. We can afford to keep him. If you think you can't, then trade him next off-season, not when you are chasing a Cup and fighting for division titles.
Robo is a complete forward. He's not even through developing yet. He's the 2nd best forward on this team after Rantanen(Wyatt Johnston will be soon but isn't there yet). Trading Robertson now is foolish.
I think the old adage is true: the team who gets the best player tends to win the trade. And it's hard to envision a trade where a better player than Robertson comes back to Dallas.
Fruit loops? Mashed bananas! I enjoy your humor.
Brady Tkachuk? I've been laughed at and summarily dismissed by others for suggesting as much. Would Ottawa even consider such a thing?
Keep up the great work, Tiffin.
I’ve been convinced all along that there’s no way Nill is trading Robertson, but now I wonder how he can’t…
Someone said… “find good players and keep them!”
Robos struggles always seem injury related… otherwise he puts up crazy good numbers… good habits, excellent work ethic, great personality… home grown… could get stronger!
I say get him on the Wheaties/workout program… and keep him (Seguins contract is up when we need it to pay Robo!)
Seguin is at the very top of the players that I would try to keep after the core group that I mentioned in my comment.
My general view: it would be insane to trade Jason Robertson. Teams should be crawling over broken glass during a nuclear winter to find and keep players with his talent, hockey IQ, and work ethic. Just look at how much value Joe Pavelski added to this team beyond his own individual production. Moreover, his defense is severely underrated. He is actually an excellent two way forward when he is fully healthy, as he has been until this season.
Jim Nill needs to think like Jimmy Johnson when he was the de facto GM of the Cowboys. Who in the NHL would be an upgrade or as good as Robo over the next 5-8 years, when he will be in his prime years as an NHL player? If you exclude the very top level of forwards (McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, players on that level), who else is left? Again, I'm not talking just about his excellent two way game, but also the hockey IQ, the work ethic, etc.
But what about the playoffs? You only get the best teams in the playoffs, and they put their best checkers and defense pairs against your top lines. What happened to Robo happens to most top line NHL forwards outside the very top group that I mentioned above. The old playoff saw about scorers needing to check and checkers needing to score is absolutely the truth.
But what if you can get a bunch of draft picks? Well, how many of them will grow up enough to become the next Jason Robertson? And how long would that take. If you look at the Stars own draft picks since 2017, you might look at players like Wyatt Johnston and Thomas Harley, but those guys should have been top 5 picks in their draft years. The Stars did their usual excellent scout work and also got very lucky. Their chances of landing a player even as good as Wyatt or Harley are not great unless they are picking in the top 5 -- and the teams drafting that high are not looking for guys like Jason right now.
Last, if the salary cap is the real problem, then make the hard decisions with other players who are not as valuable as Robertson. There is a core of players that include Rantanen, Hintz, Robo, Heiskanen, Harley, Oettinger, and Lindell that you have to build the rest of the team around. And you have your entry level players who are salary cap friendly and might develop into core players in the next 3-4 years. The rest of the team is where you have to make your hard choices. You can always find replacement NHL players at those positions. Maybe not quite as good overall as the ones you would let go, but good enough. And they might actually be as good or better playing with better players than their former teams.
Anyway, in the end you win Stanley Cups by having better players who outwork everyone else. That's where Robo is right now in his career and he is in his prime years. So, again, trading him is insanity unless you are getting back a top 10 NHL player.
I think the cap excuse is mostly nonsense and if the Stars move Robertson it's because they don't like the player or the agent, and can fill a need. That being said, who are the real options for the Stars to upgrade their need (RHD) with a Robertson trade? You can assume the only people I'd be comfortable doing a 1 for 1 swap are unavailable and also wouldn't be swapped by their teams (Makar, Fox, Bouchard), and that Erik Karlsson is too old to really fit the window. So that leaves us with a few guys who you would need teams to add assets into the deal to make the trade worthwhile for the Stars.
Mackenzie Weegar - would the Flames move on from him to boost their forward scoring?
Brandon Montour - same question for Seattle
Brandt Clarke - Is LA really ready to give up on a huge upside offensive RHD, and would they add the right assets in for the Stars to pull the trigger? They'd probably need to add another roster player and a pick.
Noah Dobson - Same question for NYI as LA
Moritz Seider - Would Detroit get rid of their franchise D for a winger?
Filip Hronek - Would Vancouver really have the assets to add to this to make it worthwhile for Dallas? Would it in any world be added value for the Stars to add Hronek with all of his defensive limitations at 70% of what Robo's next contract would cost?
To me, the vast majority of these moves don't make any sense, so it doesn't make sense to move on from Robertson this offseason. Robo is a young cost-controlled asset who you can move any time in the next 2 seasons and who is worth the next contract you're going to give him. There's no reason you can't move Marchment's 1x4.5m contract to a bubble/ low end playoff team looking for depth or another contender looking for grit and get a pick back for him, and you should be able to package a pick to get Dumba off your hands. Hell if it really is a cap crunch why are we talking about Benn coming back at all just for a couple legacy years? Then in 2 years we have about 35m in projected cap space so even if you're giving Harley and Robo 10m each that's still 15m to play with. It's really just a one year crunch at this point, and that's manageable because you still have Robo at his current under market value rate.
I see it more as Nill doing due diligence. The Stars don't want to lose him, but if another team is so desperate for goals that they'll give Dallas an offer they can't refuse? Well, that's another conversation entirely. But yeah, if it's just a matter of making a roster, they have lots of creative options that are less disruptive. But I think they're looking for big moves.
Yeah I tend to agree. I just think that generally the big move has to be to fill a need with a player of similar caliber. Trading Robertson for 2-3 worse players doesn’t make the team better in aggregate under almost any circumstances.
Old NBA adage about superstars….never trade a dollar for 4 quarters.
Is there any scenario a Lybushkin, Dumba, Marchment, plus prospect package lands Ristolinen + Depth forward from Philly?
Maybe not all 3 but its going to take something out of left field
So, now the Avs just wait to see who he gets traded to, trade for him at next year's deadline, and then let Robo crush our souls in a game 7 of next year's playoffs? (aka The Avs have a chance to do the funniest thing...)
p.s. I am not advocating for this and really shouldn't even be putting this karma out into the world. My sick, self-deprecating sense of humor immediately went here though. So, I thought I would share. ;p
This would be some kind of theatre.
There's not a return out there in which we'll get equal value for Robo. We don't need a RHD1, we can't afford it with both Harley and Miro. Replace his production with who? You are already in danger of losing Duchene. We want to say goodbye to 160+points of production off 2 forwards in one off-season?
The salary cap is going up. We can afford to keep him. If you think you can't, then trade him next off-season, not when you are chasing a Cup and fighting for division titles.
Robo is a complete forward. He's not even through developing yet. He's the 2nd best forward on this team after Rantanen(Wyatt Johnston will be soon but isn't there yet). Trading Robertson now is foolish.
I think the old adage is true: the team who gets the best player tends to win the trade. And it's hard to envision a trade where a better player than Robertson comes back to Dallas.
Exactly this. He's one of the only play driving forwards we have. The numbers show he's elite. I don't understand the logic behind the trade talk
My question is: Which team (who might have a young stud coming up) would be willing to part with a quality RHD & picks to trade for Robertson?